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Frank and Stan Chats

By: Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
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  • Summary

  • Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan

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    © 2023 Frank and Stan Chats
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Episodes
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 186

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 186
    May 11 2024

    When Frank and Stan held their first chat in May 2020 we never imagined others would be interested in them. We certainly didn't envisage that eminent thinkers, practitioners and respected colleagues would join us as guests. This week we are delighted welcome back Neil Jurd, author of 'The Leadership Book', former army officer and RMA Sandhurst instructor and now a business leader of a training organisation in leadership development and coaching. Neil has an MA from Cranfield University and a fellow of the Institute of Leadership and Management. He was appointed OBE in 2021 and awarded the British Citizen Award in 2020. Along with this impressive CV Neil is a very interesting and well informed colleague.


    The chat considers how Neil's military training and experience influenced his approach to leadership. He gives some clear, practical examples with the discussion moving on to trust and humility as key themes. Stan then considers what's caught his eyes this week and focuses on an MA dissertation he received for comment from Lucy Truman, a regular guest on the Frank and Stan Chat. He reflects on how the period of COVID encouraged local authority staff to get on with decision making without having to consult. He wonders whether consultation is currently getting in the way of decision making. Neil then reflects on the impact of AI on essay writing and how it weakens the writing style and reduces individuality. Frank then ponders over the surprising news that the DWP had harvested some pupil data from the DfE to check on benefit fraud. This arrangement was not widely known. We all then considered what other data is being shared on citizens.


    A varied and interesting chat. Hope you enjoy it.


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    50 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 185

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 185
    May 3 2024
    It was a privilege to be joined by Jan Rowe from John Moores University for a chat about ITE and the latest education news. It didn't take long for us all to reflect on the teacher trainer market review and the impact it has had. It is fair to say we found it hard to identify many strengths, if at all. Teacher recruitment numbers remain low and existing providers have had to devote valuable time to the process when all available resources should have been focused on increasing recruitment figures. Stan considers the decision by a MAT to lose all Teaching Assistants from their Primary Schools replacing them with fewer positions with a different title and focus. He considers whether it was a good look for there to be a big increase in the number of senior colleagues earning over £100k while introducing the change. He also considers the different layers of leadership some trusts have adopted. Jan then explains why there was such an outcry when the government stopped funding the Now Teach charity. Jan explains that this charity does not train the teachers, they just identify potential candidates and pass them on to a training provider. Jan connects the charity's links with media outlets and celebrities as the possible reason for such an outcry over the loss of the £1.7m project. Frank ends by drawing attention www.thealternative big listen.co.uk and the success it has had in attracting much better than expected responses. Great chat. The best bit of professional development Frank and Stan get each week. We will always be grateful for the time our great gusts give us. Hope you enjoy it as much as we did.

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    45 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No 184B

    Frank and Stan Chat No 184B
    Apr 26 2024
    This week the gents are joined by Neil Sheldon, Chair of the Teaching Statistics Trust, Fellow of the RSS and a Chartered Statistician Vice-Chair of the UK Linguistics Olympiad and Member of the Committee for Linguistics in Education. A teacher of pupils aged from 9yrs to 90yrs he's a fascinating and well informed colleague in the way statistics are used in society and particularly in education. Neil kicks off with a reflection on how we were connected through the work of Dr Dennis Sherwood and the accuracy of examination results. He explains how statistics is about insight rather than numbers. Stan then considers the government's response to the Coroner's Report following the tragic death of Ruth Perry. He highlights the inconsistencies and vagueness of their response. Neil then explains the enjoyment he gained from reading 'All that remains' by Sue Black. This is a reflection on questions or mortality by a professor of anatomy and forensic anthropology, who works in war and disaster zones, As Neil indicates it is a gripping and fascinating read. Frank then reveals the launch of The Alternative Big Listen which is an attempt to discover the views of professionals about Ofsted's work. It launches on 1 May. The chat ends with Neil reflecting on what he would change in education if he had the power. He focuses on the need to ensure all those reviewing data have a clear understanding of what it means. A riveting chat.

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    3 mins
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